Femme on Femme Advice
I’ve gotten a few emails lately from femmes that are only attracted to other femmes. They are wondering why that isn’t represented more on this, or other blogs. It seems that the butch/femme dynamic is the more widely accepted arrangement. So I wanted to address that a little.
First of all, you might not have realized it but the Girl Zero saga is all about another femme. In fact, it’s about several. S and Zoe were both femmes. I’m femme. For the first several years of me figuring out how I fit into the lesbian community, I was only attracted to femmes.
I never experienced any prejudice from the straight world when I was dating other femmes and I think that’s because it’s easier to pass for two straight besties that are really really close, then for people to realize that we were actually lovers. And even then, when men see two femmes kissing, they tend to think the girls are bisexual and they treat it like a special floor show, just for them.
But aside from that, I know a lot of femme lesbians that are only attracted to other femmes. In LA it seems to be about 50/50. When we go out to a club the chances are about even that a femme will be with a girl that could be her sister or a more masculine styled lesbian.
I’m actually not really sure what to write for this topic, even though I’ve gotten several requests. Other then to say that femme/femme relationships and butch/butch relationships are as common as butch/femme relationships. Just maybe it’s not as noticeable because when two girls are both the same “type” they are easily mistaken for platonic friends by onlookers, unless they’re making it super obvious that they’re together.
Then even when both girls are the same type, and for the sake of writing what I know, two femmes, there is still usually some sort of role assignment. By that I mean, one girl usually takes the lead. It’s not arbitrary but more of a natural selection based on each girl’s own personality. I’ve found that there is usually some sort of ying and yang in every relationship no matter what the outer appearance is.
I’m not really speaking of finances or opening doors. Because that’s all very unique to each couple, their circumstances and their comfort levels. I guess what I’m trying to say, is even if you’re femme who’s into other femmes, it’s likely that one of you will be the aggressor and the other will be more passive. This is just human nature. If you’re both passive, then how on earth will you ever get together? Someone has to make the first move!
Which brings me to a good point. How does a femme let another femme know they’re interested?
Well, the first thing I learned (a little late) was to ask some questions first. Figure out if the femme you’re eyeing is open to dating other femmes or is she hard core into butches and only butches? There is no reason to get your fragile ego shot down for nothing.
A person’s preference has nothing to do with you so don’t take it personal if they like a type that you just aren’t. Just accept it and move on.
But say you find out that she is into other femmes or at least open to it. Then this is when you have to be a little brave. Take a deep breath and ask her out. Ask her out for coffee.
A coffee date is the universal signal for “let’s see if we click before we get stuck together on a long drawn out, awkward date.”
Since it’s always confusing about who pays when two femmes are dating, the best bet is to go with the rule, whoever asks the other one out, pays. Unless she asked YOU out, then you plan on going Dutch and if she insists on paying then you say “Thank you” and pay for the next date.
Finances are something you two will talk about later, if and when it becomes a “thing.” But until then, you pay for her if you ask her out. If she insists on paying, let her. Just don’t be a jerk and do what feels right in the moment.
The one thing I would stress is open, honest communication. I know, shocker right? It takes some guts to put yourself out there, but you have to, especially if you’re a femme into other femmes. Because someone has to ask the other out. If she’s used to be asked out, then you might have to make the first move even if that’s way outside your comfort zone.
I heard something a few weeks ago that really stuck with me and I think it’s perfect for this situation too:
EVERYTHING YOU WANT, IS RIGHT OUTSIDE YOUR COMFORT ZONE
So don’t worry if you’re femme into femmes, or butch into other butches. That’s normal! Everything is normal. What’s not normal is fighting who you are and trying to fit into some preconceived notion of who you think others want you to be. RELAX!!!! And ask her out. 😉
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The all-caps sentence is my new credo.
I so needed to hear or read something like this.
Thank you so very much.
Where I’m from, no one even thinks about ‘femmes’ or ‘butch’ terms. They don’t really exist. There’s just Lesbians that’s it. If she’s a lesbian then she might be into you if your also a lesbian, kind of thing. Yes there are a couple of fashion trade marks to identify a lesbian, usually hair. But not much. ‘Butch’ is just being a more of a tomboy, what ever a person is comfortable wearing. A lot of straight women look like tomboys, they would look like butch lesbians in LA probably. I argue that it’s all a construct, just like gay men acting stereotypically gay.
I was just talking about this sort of thing with a soft-butch friend of mine… perhaps it’s just a matter of our local scene, but I really feel that the acceptance of different types of lesbian pairings is very generational. I’m in my 20’s, and I have found that most other lezzys in my locality in that age group have this androgynous-Shane-esque look about them, and generally go for the same. I’m pretty femme, and am attracted to butch women, and feel a lot of rejection and judgement for that because they see it as playing into the heterosexual stereotypes… they essentially see it as not lesbian enough. I have literally been told that I’m not “fully lesbian” yet because I am yet to change my hair-style (which is long… I’m assuming they meant it should be shorter), and “dyke out” my clothes.
…so, I suppose my response is that the acceptance of different types of couples is likely completely regional…and I agree, that you probably see/interact with many more femme+femme couples than you realize.
lolita.rose don’t let anyone tell you what you should look like. And, just because you are attracted to us butches doesn’t make you a player to a heterosexual role. Butches are unique in that we are still women and understand you (femmes) as such…and connect much more with you all than a heterosexual man. Furthermore, Shane-esque women need to realize that Shane’s character was BUTCH! And, she pretty much dated femmes the entire time of the series. Shane’s dating Shane’s could be a generational thing but, I believe it is more infatuation with that bad boy character…a trend. Don’t stop lovin us, lady! 🙂
” it’s likely that one of you will be the aggressor and the other will be more passive. This is just human nature. If you’re both passive, then how on earth will you ever get together? Someone has to make the first move!”
Well hello, haven’t you heard of the term “switching roles”? It’s what I do, I love touching my girlfriend and love being touched by her… These are moments that bring us much closer and I wouldn’t want to reduce the latter or the former… Plus, it would be boring to have a certain role in sex, wouldn’t it?
About the asking-out thing. Every lesbian should try it, it doesn’t matter whether she is butch or femme, or which of the two the woman that got her interest is. Let’s say you are straight-looking and the girl you like is also femme. Ask her out and if she appears to be straight, or into butch girls, at least you tried! Really, the worst thing to do is having that “what if I tried?” stuck in your head. The girl you are looking at could be straight, but also she could be a great love that you shouldn’t miss! You don’t even have to ask her out at the very first moment you see her. Try reaching her with your eyes and play the ” i like you..do you…?” eye-contact thing and see if she’s interested at all. Plus, it is even easier when people (including her) can’t tell whether you are approaching her in a “romantic” way. Come on, you’re both women, you can play friends’ date for a while if you’re shy. Until you get to know each other. Let your feminity be a means to hide your actual purpose and bring you closer to her 😛
PS: lolita.rose I have had a similar problem, even some of my past girlfriends assumed I was bisexual only according to my looks. It’s harder to be “understood” by a partner who is not as femme. Don’t go butch, just show them how “gayful” you feel for them and that’s the only thing that matters 😉
I think Stacy missed the point of Lolita’s post. She is concerned with the fact that her generation gives her shit for wanting to be with a butch and stay her femme self. I say (as an older butch) fuck em. It is hard enough for real butches to find femmes looking for butch lovers and not the douchebag Shane lesbians. It’s a fad that will eventually die out. Don’t change who you are to cater to a generation of clones. Butches need femmes to stay true to them because no matter how old I get there will always be baby butches coming after. They need you femmes. And they do still exist. Just tell the clones to fuck off and love the butch. The butch femme dynamic is alive and well and is nothing to be ashamed of.
🙁 I’v only ever seen one non-“butch”/”femme” relationship. And I’v seen alot of lesbian relationships. It sucks becuase I want to be with a girl….girly girl. Long hair ,doest mind dresses or heels, might wear make up ect. But I’m like that …love dresses love heels ect. So I feel like I’m going to be stuck with the lesbians who look like men (butch? Not sure I never use these weird terms ever) if i ever want to have a girlfriend because that’s the only type of couples I ever see around. And I really don’t want that 🙁
Also apparently there are lesbians that don’t like to be “touched” in bed. No thank you I want to fuck my gf just as much as she fucks me.
This is assuming I ever get a girlfriend.
Thanks Femmelover & Raye, that support means so much.
-and sorry Stacy, but Raye is right. I’m femme, and am attracted to butch women (Shane was even too boi/andro. for me most of the time). I appreciate that not all femmes are, but that masculinity in a woman just does *it* for me.
There is no right and wrong in this… If there were, the right thing to do is be with who you really like. And of course, even though I personally like femme girls better, I have been with casual-style girls or semi-butch and I didnt care because their personality was enough to cover my needs.The female personality is the most attractive part, I like women because they are so complex and challenging, comparing to man who are so boring. But usually, style and personality go together, so femme styles follow a female personality… So thats why people usually prefer certain types of styles (butch or femme in this case), because they believe that the personality underneath it is the one they are looking for…
Conclusion. We love the woman, not the clothes, but they commonly go together…. Either way, there is no wrong and right..
PS.. and yes Michi, hope exists, dont give up, I know many femme-femme couples, and even if you don’t, you can always lead the way 😉
An incredible post! Even though you aren’t sure what to write, you’ve hit the nail on the head regarding femme/femme dating and a part of it’s dynamics.
As a shy femme, being plunged into the world of femme on femme dating, is a big, total shift out of the comfort zone. I’ve never hit on a woman before, and a good half of us are waiting for the other to take those steps. And you know, someone has to start the chase! So, you’ve hit that arrow true.
Luck shone on me, and I’m in a happy relationship with another femme whom I love very much.
From my vantage, there are a few different kinds of femmes and types they seek. Lots of femmes tend to seek another femme who is just like their best friend. Someone whom they could laugh, giggle and share everything with. A passionate and mutually equal relationship.
Another type is the yin/yang femme dynamic which you described adeptly, like me and my partner
My girlfriend is a femme, long-haired, tall-ish, but with a more “masculine” inside. She is a naturally take-charge kind of woman, who often leads. Yet without being pushy, but respectful of me and my boundaries. Whilst, she doesn’t exactly open doors, she is very much a gentlewoman, who buys me flowers and picks up all dating tabs and expenses. And it isn’t exclusively for me. It’s a “part” she does for all of her exes.
And I’ve often desired a female lover that cares for me and provides me with a sense of security. Thus this is a sweet spot for both of us.
Other than that, we are a typical couple who enjoys having fun, being zany and romantically intimate.
I’m a femme bisexual who’s attracted to another femme girls. I was wondering if there were more girls with my preferences in the community! I like to be the ‘aggressor’ most of the time when with a girl and the passive one most of the time when with a guy. It not about gender roles so much as the fact that I like to mix it up. 😉
How would you categorize a lipstick lesbian that is attracted to a stem? I thought I was a femme but the definition keeps saying that femmes are attracted to butch or dyke but I am only attracted to stem.
I’m an androgynous non-binary femme attracted to women & other queer people all over the spectrum. I love wearing makeup and dresses but I have shaved hair, hairy armpits, and many other masculine features. Although I identify as femme, I think my gender presentation usually falls somewhere in the middle of the butch/femme binary. That is just me! My parter happens to be more masculine and I usually (but not always) present more feminine, but I don’t at all feel like I am “conforming” to some kind of butch/femme hetero binary. I just have an attraction to her and it doesn’t really have anything to do with being butch or femme for me personally. I am just as attracted to femme women as I am to butch as well as everything in between and beyond. I think the categories of femme and butch can be whatever you want them to be. For some people they are a really important way to identify themselves that empowers them and makes them happy! Others may find them too restrictive and not want to be labeled. Of course, most people have a preference as far as what type of person they are attracted to, but these categories should never be restrictive or oppressive. Whatever you look like, whatever you identify as, and whoever you are attracted to is completely OK and normal. Butch/femme relationships are fantastic. Femme/femme relationships are wonderful. Butch/butch relationships are awesome. Relationships in between and beyond the binary are beautiful. Don’t let these categories dictate your life or your happiness, because like someone earlier said, they are social constructs anyhow. Just do what makes you happy 🙂
I agree that if you’re femme and into femmes you pretty much just have to approach them first. It’s amazing how many femmes I’ve talked to who tell me they are waiting to be approached, and then nothing ever happens. I’ve also met a lot of femmes who only date studs, so it’s hard to find femmes who like other femmes. Then again, it’s probably just my local scene. I’ve heard that there are more femmes who like femmes in coastal places like West Hollywood and New York, and not so much in mid west areas like Chicago. I stay in Chicago and I usually have trouble meeting femmes who are into femmes. I’d like to meet more.
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