Butch, Tomboi, Boi ????
So Remi and I have this ongoing discussion about how she’s the “butch” in the relationship … duhhhh ….. but she doesn’t identify as butch. I don’t get it. I think butch is less of a fashion statement and more of an attitude and a way you approach life.
So instead of writing about it, I vlogged about it late last night. Sorry the video quality is poor, it was too dark and I was too tired to re-do it. But tell me what your opinions are on the differences between the terms: Butch, Tomboi and Boi.
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Hey cutie, you look pretty sexy even if the video is a little blurry.
To answer your question, as a butch speaking here, butches are better at being the man then any biological man ever dreamed of being. We’re better providers. Better lovers. Better everything.
If a lesbian rather call herself a tomboi instead of butch, let her. She knows what she’s talking about.
I love you Sasha, I love that you love us butches. I love that you’ve opened up your blog to new talented butch writers and i love that you are open about how amazing and sexy you find butches to be.
I agree wtih Joe and I think Raye even mentioned something to the affect, that we’re better men then any man walking the earth.
If a femme wants to be taken care of, she needs a strong butch or even someone with that personality type.
I’m a femme and I only date women with a butch attitude. Even if they look femme, they take the lead, pay for everything, please me, basically they take care of me and that’s what I want.
I give you credit for having the balls to admit that Remi takes care of you and that you need or expect that from anyone you date. You sound a little high maintenance there Sasha …. but I guess Remi likes that. lol
I’m what a lot of people call a baby dyke or boi. I can pass for a 14 year old cute boy but the women who see me know I’m all dyke.
I think Remi doesn’t want to be classified as butch because she’s afraid that’s calling her a truck driver dyke sort of thing. I think a lot of people have it in their minds that a butch dyke wears flannel and truck driver hats, drives trucks and doesn’t shave and probably doesn’t take care of themselves.
I think in LA especially, the term tomboi and sporty came into play to represent the LA butch lesbian that’s very into fashion, maybe wears eyeliner, works out a lot and definitely looks like a woman. But also really looks like a dyke. I think of Shane from the L word as a good example.
I think that butch is a harsher term then tomboi. I think it also speaks more to how they are sexually then just who pays for what. A lot of butches are more like studs and service the femme without ever allowing themselves to receive any pleasure.
Maybe Remi holds onto the tomboi term because she feels she’s holding on to some of her femininity by doing so. But it does sound like she has a butch mentality in the way she handles you.
I don’t identify as anything but a lesbian, although if you see me on the street, you’d probably think I was “butch” or “boi-ish”. I don’t get too hung up on labels. Labels limit, and who wants to be limited (unless you’re into that sort of thing)?
I agree with Jess. I think that a lot of people view the “butch” term as an extreme version of what it means. And that maybe Remi does want to hold onto a bit of her femininity.
I like the way you use the term “butch” in your blogs & the way you use it as a compliment because I know that some people don’t think of that term in necessarily a good light & some lesbians are offended when called that.
I’m not butch or femme, but I almost wish that I was one of those two, because the way you describe the dynamic between them seems appealing. I think I’d make a good butch, but I’d rather be a femme. Haha.
I like the way Jess said, she has a butch mentality in the way she “handles” you. LOL like you need to be handled with care or something. But you do sound pretty high maintenance.
But I am too and proud of it! Beautiful women like us deserve the best and if Remi’s the best one for you and she gives you the best then she deserves you.
It’s really simple. A beautiful woman can always find a sugar daddi, it’s just whether or not she has the self confidence to know it. Or did she have a messed up child hood and low self esteem and lets people use her?
Beautiful women are hard to come by, especially ones with brains and then even harder to find in the lesbian community. I hate to say it but dimes are rarer when they’re gay.
Hey Sasha, I’m glad you starting posting videos. I always read your blog and am a big fan! It was pretty awesome to see a face and personality that matches the witty and sexy writing. I think you’re gorgeous!
Listen up gorgeous, you are one fine piece of pie. If you ever want a real butch who knows how to treat a femme like you then call me. This is not a joke. I’m butch enough to keep a dame like you in line and have you begging for more. I’m sure remi won’t be able to keep this sort of thing up forever …. but I can.
I hope you realize that you’ve got a huge fan base in the butch community. We really appreciate the way you voice your love of our part of the community. Don’t think it goes unnoticed. If you ever need anything at all, just call. But I’m sure you’ve got a few lined up already that’s ok, I’ll get in line too 🙂
I am a femme woman who absolutely admires and appreciates the sexy qualities of a butch woman. A butch woman to me, is sure of herself, exudes confidence, dresses in a more masculine way, has a killer attitude and is a lover who loves with passion and fire. The other side of a butch woman that makes me melt is her tender heart and the way she loves. She makes you feel like the most beautiful woman in the world and she is fiercely protective and totally loyal because she loves you and vice versa.
For me, I have always always been attracted to butch women and my smoken hot butch is damn sexy!
I’ve got long hair, I wear dresses and lipstick, and so I’m classed as a “femme”. And I love that on the outside I’m all girly. But inside, I’m more butch.
I’m career orientated, and when my tom-boy partner and I have kids, she’ll be the stay at home mum, and I’ll be the one out working…. I would hate to be the “wifey” type at home. Everyone thinks it’s hilarious because my partner looks butch and I look femme, and yet our roles at home tend to be reversed… oh but she’s a champion with a toolset, my real “handyman”. I can’t do anything physical around the house, while she puts on her overalls and steel capped boots and goes to work.
And that’s the thing. We’re lesbians, we don’t have defined roles or expectations. I’ll cook, she’ll cook, it doesn’t matter. I think that’s part of why we work so well. We work well because we don’t have expectations of one another, we just do what feels right. I love that. We don’t have prescribed gender roles based on us being butch or femme, we just do what we both want to do…. society tells us to be with someone of the opposite sex, and we ignore that, so we tend to ignore any prescribed butch/femme roles, too.
I dont’ think I could be in a relationship with another femme, but sometimes I feel more butch in attitude, so it’s hard to know.
I love your Vlogs by the way! Great to see you after reading you for ages!
Oh… and my wife doesn’t call herself butch, but I do think of her as butchy. She identifies as “just gay” while I idenitfy as “femme”.
HA HA HA LOL!!! THAT IS SO EASY TO ANSWER!!! truthfully its because of what we asoceate the word butch with, all the other words that came around afterwards just came around later in a way to make the whole dike movement seem less harsh a word, mind you i am what ever the hell you want to call me, in the true meaning of the word, i am a girl that likes girls, that looks like a boy, so if you have a word for that then.. ill take it. truth be known i think im the only butch i know that has a styleist do my hair and a lady for my nails so i have NO idea where i fall, so what ever works is fine with me, remember every one has there own deff. for thows kind of words there all relative. thus the whole everyone gets touchy… but alltimitly we all have some simalratys to boys in some form or another, thus the newist word boy spelled b-o-i its less painfull to hear than butch, but frankly i’ve been gay so long i really dont care what you call me, i really do in fact see all of thows terms as adv. so i get you and i know were your comeing from, and chances are no one is right and everyone is right…. 🙂
Baby dyke said:
“I think in LA especially, the term tomboi and sporty came into play to represent the LA butch lesbian that’s very into fashion, maybe wears eyeliner, works out a lot and definitely looks like a woman. But also really looks like a dyke. I think of Shane from the L word as a good example.”
I think that’s it exactly. Now let me start out wish saying that I whole heatedly agree with Sasha! I love me some masculine women, and I really appreciate butch women. Everything about them.. Their strength, generosity, capacity to love, lack of fear of getting their hands dirty.
I think the stigma against the term butch also has to do with the social repercussions that come with not fitting into a “gender role.” When women act more masculine in society there can be a big societal back lash that comes with it because they aren’t acting the way a woman should. Which I think is really directly linked to sexism that still exists in America today.
My girlfriend is very boyish, but like Remi she doesn’t like the term butch or likes being compared to butch women. She use to be femme in her 20’s and has a lot of feminine traits to her personality, as well as a lot of masculine traits, and she doesn’t mind being called boyish or lesbian, but that is about as far as it goes. To her butch looking girls are unattractive, and I think that might be part of the reason she doesn’t want to be called butch. She thinks it’s kind of gross. Which makes me laugh a little, but that is probably why she is into femmes. I guess though it’s good that there is a spectrum in the gay community because I think there are a lot of girls that lie somewhere between extremely femme to extremely butch, based on personality and appearance. Actually come to think of it, I don’t really even think of my girlfriend as butch she really is quite androgynous when it comes to her personality. She’s a good mix of everything which I love.
But, there is definitely nothing unattractive in my mind when it comes to butches. To reiterate,( lol just incase you didn’t get it the first time?), like you sasha, I just love masculine women! I really hope any kind of stigma against butches inside of the community or out disappears fast because it’s really sad that people don’t see these women for what they are, amazing. I couldn’t live with out them.
A lot of the girls I’ve dated have despised that term as well, for reasons unknown to me. Being femme, there is nothing I love more than a hot dyke. There’s just something so incredibly sexy about butches, tombois, and bois, and frankly I’ve given up on labels. I don’t care what you call yourselves, you’re just damn hot as hell to me ;D
I personally have no qualms with the word butch. I think there is a huge difference between being butchie and being a BULL DYKE. I am boi-ish. I get my hair cut by a stylist but it is still done with clippers on the sides. My femme girlfriend is the one who requests it so short. I can rock it a little longer than that if I get the urge to do so. Butch is not a look. It is a state of mind. And I have told many women before, that men view them as second rate… they just illustrate it more vehemently at us because we are easy targets for society. But they still feel the same way about straight or femme women. The only thing dictating their treatment of you is the thought that they might have the slightest chance to get into your pants someday. Once that delusion is gone, you’ll get it as bad as we do. Men think they are better than women in every respect…. even the ones they claim to “love”
Raye brought up an interesting point about why femmes might get treated better by males, the idea that there is a chance they can sleep with them… I have never thought of that! But, that totally makes sense! Wow that clicked with me. Thanks.
I’m interested so much in the difference between what the term “butch” means out on the coast or some gay-friendlier metropolitan areas verses what it can mean here in Indiana.
My girlfriend chafes at being called “butch,” and I chafe at being called “femme.” Neither of us is really either. We both have long hair, yet we both generally rock the jeans-and-tee combo, and neither of us has really any grasp of “fashion,” ha!
Still, despite our being the same height, she’s built more stout than I am and used to be an athlete, so she gets assigned one and I get assigned the other. Yeah, I’m known to wear some skirts on nights out, and she does the heavy lifting, but I kill the bugs and touch the gross stuff in the back of the dishwasher.
She owns the cat, I own the dog.
I guess for her she doesn’t like the connotation (for here, in the midwest) that butch = dyke = something bad to be hated.
I don’t like the connotation that femme = weak = girly.
I find it hard to identify as a label just cause I can never visualize myself in either role, on one hand I love being pampered to a degree, but With my size and height 6’5) don’t come across femmy at all and actually come across kinda intimidating, on the other hand I embrace My butch side, with my mannerisms at times. overall I’m happy I’m currently dating a butch-y girl and I love it. Just that since I don’t fit that Ahem Fem mold its a PITA to date until they get to know me and find out i am not what I appear
I’m basically a femme – but kind of a sporty one – usually dates mostly femme-type chicks, and never thought much about the differences between butch, boi, and tomboi. Great video Sasha.
Even if you just point at a picture and say “Look at this girl I just saw”, you’re still labeling her a girl 😉 Maybe she’s not a girl but a woman, or zi is genderqueer, or he is a trans man. There’s no getting away from labels.
I consider myself a tomboy, but if pressed to pick between butch or femme, I’d pick femme. To me, “butch” requires manliness. I’m just boyish, and a girly boy at that.
When it comes to roles in relationships, I’m neutral. With femmes I take the ‘boy’ role, with butches, I take the ‘girl’ role.
you girls are out of your mind! you need help
Help with what??
I’m butch, and I think of butches as being more mature than bois. People who are bois are like teens. A butch is an adult. This means we take responsibility for ourselves and our people. A boi doesn’t do that and isn’t expected to. A tomboy is more feminine than a boi or a butch.
well i dont really do the label thing persay but alot of people would consider me femme now in my eyes my girlfriend would be butch but as far as her personality she can be a bit girly at times(especially in bed) so she really doesnt do the label thing either
I agreed with Joe N Butch there is a big different from being a butch or bois hmmmmm I would say BUTCH[ WITH MASCULINE PERSONALITY] the way they think, handle their woman [ femme or straight women or if some lesbian like it [wink] ] we are like a man the way we handle our girlfriend…… we know how to stand our girl in thick n thin , financially and emotionally but no drama [ were tried to avoid drama ] but we are a good lover, sweetheart or a friend……Peace 🙂
Good analogy BuggleM! I agree with you, Joe and Butch…all are hitting it right on!
My experiences with Butch as compared to 1 tomboi….tomboi spent more time on her makeup and hair then I ever have even when I was a lipstick lesbian. Butch women are generally very confident, very strong, usually the aggressors in bed. I was with 1 self proclaimed Dyke and I truly hate that term, I find it demeaning. Truthfully it doesn’t matter what you are labeled, we are all unique individuals, and every relationship is different. The dynamics are all our own. I was once considered a lipstick lesbian, now some call me androgynous some fine me fem. I can still change my own oil while wearing makeup and high heels. I can and often do damn near anything a man can, I just happen to have an f cup, and look better in a dress and heels. As I have gotten older, I have found that labels aren’t as helpful. Each human is unique, each capable of being anything they want to be. This is my first time here, thank you.
My fiance is in-between(Butch and Femme)in my eyes but she sees herself as very butch. she wears make-up and she sometimes wears skirt, to work tho’. I love her in her casual clothes because she looks very boyish and that is sexy to me… does it mean she is tomboi?(i mean her lipstick and skirts)on the other end i am very femme, from my lipstick to my high heels. i can’t and won’t do anything that is considered a man’s job… cook, clean, iron, bake and nature i do best and i love it…
its my first time too and am happy to be in this page…
All very interesting read.
Do people think that all women who ‘look’ butch want to be the ‘top’ in bed?
I think the term butch has been used as an insult many times but i see that you use it pretty loosely and i can understand that the main difference i see is that butches appearances are more that of a man and tomboys are less like that me myself would identify myself as a tomboy i always has but others may see me as a butch and i get why many just use 2 terms one for the girl and one for the guy in the relationship. but there are subgroups to those 2 main groups of fem and stud/butch.
You can call me, butch/boi doesn’t matter, people often mistake me for a teenager.Cashiers have called me sir, young man, I have no problem with it, even gay men have made the mistake. As butch/boi I prefer giving more than I do receiving,I don’t mind it, but I love giving that’s just me. I don’t really feel comfortable laying on my back like a femme all the time getting head.
You are absolutely adorable. God.
I clicked through a bunch of links to other blogs and found yours. I have one, too, if you care to check it out. I wrote the link in the blank space.
I don’t care for the negative stigma attached to the word “butch.” I identify as butch. I wear it proudly. I’ll claim “boi” as a secondary, but I don’t think it fits. When I think of “boi”, I think of someone boyish in appearance who refuses to grow up. Like the above posters said, a teenage boy type.
When I think of “tomboi”/”tomboy”, I think of someone who has some traits of masculinity but still presents in a feminine manner. I think of the ponytailed, athletic jock girls more than anything.
Your Remi sounds like she’s butch in the context of your relationship, at least. Roles in a relationship are very individual and very situational. A lot of lesbians of our generation refuse to claim butch even if it’s unquestionably what they’d be before radical feminism came about. (No, radical feminism isn’t necessarily bad, but I don’t care for the way it made butch/femme taboo back in the 70’s by saying it was heterosexual mimicry.) There are so many ways of self expression and some people honestly feel claiming a label like that is surrendering to one set role when they feel they could exhibit several.
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I suspect that the line between butch and femme isn’t always clear-cut. Opposites attract, but a person can have traits that appear incongruous with one another, and find companionship with someone with opposite traits similarly apparently incongruous. Someone who looks and behaves like a femme in most cases but likes to be sexually dominant, whose ideal partner is a submissive who identifies as butch. Stereotypes exist for a reason, but they are also just that: stereotypes. Maybe someone who plays a butch role in a relationship but identifies as androgynous, tomboi or neither is not identifying as such because of the stigma of the word ‘butch,’ but because she recognizes a potential to play a different role in a different situation. Comparatively, someone who identifies as bisexual, not lesbian, isn’t necessarily doing so because the word ‘bi’ sounds better than ‘lesbian’ but because she recognizes the potential for her to be in a relationship with both a man and a woman.
first … boi is pronounced like .. “moie” ..not boy. second .. you’re totally inaccurate with the lesbian relationship. As a self identified butch boi .. i can say that i am not a butch for the purpose that I pay when we go out … there is more to it that that. I couldn’t even watch the whole video because you kept mispronouncing the topic .. I’m sorry
LMFAO!!!! Are you fucking kidding me??? Boi is NOT pronounced “moie”. Where the fuck do some of you pull this shit out of? And I love it when people come on here and have the nerve to “tell” us how it is, and how Sasha is wrong in her personal opinions. Especially since she is always gracious enough to allow room for all opinions. even stupid ass ones like Self ID BUTCH BOI. Whatever boi. Why dont you go troll some other site.
DUDE WTF!!!! LOLOLOLOL, moie. Uh huh. And Alex isn’t pronounced Alex it’s pronounced Pimp Daddy.
B… It makes a “buh” sound, like the “buzzing” of a “bee.” Of course, now we’re opening up the debate that bees do not in fact buzz, but rather flit, menacingly in a “mzzt!” like fashion. Or are those flies? Which, incidentally, can be attracted more so with honey than vinegar- honey, bringing us back to bee’s. Bees, which tie in with how B makes one sound only- unless it’s Cherokee. And, this person left out “thirdly” which details how this is an attention ploy in the same family as the last one we had. At least this one is funny. x3
But in all seriousness, as a derivative of boy, and a respecter of regional accent, I’d say Sasha’s doing juuuuuust fine. More vlogs! Moooore vlogs! (Don’t mind me, I need sleep, ha).
Did I learn the wrong alphabet in school?
I now need instructions on how to pronounce “moie”.
Moe-i-ee? I prefer Torchwood.
Hahahahaha!!! I have never in my life heard anything so stupid!!
Yeah we totes learned the wrong alphabet. Omg. Thanks for a laugh, dumbass, or as I like to pronounce it “Stupid jerk who knows nothing.”
LMMFAO which planet did you drop out from its boy not moie LOL you need to shut the fuck up and crawl back to where ever you came out from and wat are you butch or boi ?? you know its two different things right ? 😉
In my experience there is definitely a difference between the terms boi and tomboi…boi to me has always meant someone that acts like or is a young teenager…I identify as a sporty (tomboi-femme) meaning I like to take care of my women but also have that soft gentle side. I dress sporty, but also can look feminine…I am strong, independant, athletic, confident but NOT in the least like a man..if I wanted a man or wanted to be a man..I’d be with one. There are alot of strong, independant femme’s but in my experience the tomboi-femme is both in control (not in a bad way) and gentle. A butch to me has always identified more with a man…both in style and personality (not a bad thing, if that’s what you like)I too use the term butch in a respectful way… They are amazing women as are all lesbians, and also take great care of their women, but each does identify in their own way based on their perception of themselves, their feelings and their style. There are even butch-femmes…In the end for me..it’s Stereotyping and it exist for a reason, but when it comes down to it they are just stereotypes. You can be attracted as femme women who is dominant in the bedroom with someone who identifies as a butch who is submissive, yet they play equal roles in their relationship. It’s a label but it’s all in how identify with yourself and who you are attracted too. I have been with both..butch and femme women, each in their own way have been amazing..I admit I do have my preference, but there are definite differences in each of these terms. Thanks as always Sasha for a very interesting topic. All you women..just be who you want to BE Xo
Looks like the troll from my post has found a way over to this one…. I strongly doubt that Sasha is “totally inaccurate with the lesbian relationship”. Tomato,Tamato is understandable but the letters “m” and “b” do not sound the same.
If you’re happy together why does there have to be a label. Just ‘be’ enjoy what each other brings to the relationship. Enjoy the contrasts. Oh and on the bedroom thing I don’t necessarily agree. I think certain personalities like to be dominant doesn’t make them better lovers. Thanks for you vlogg I appreciated listening to it. K
Reading these comments I notice that the guys are taking a lot of heat up in here… Not that I don’t blame you, but I know some damn good guys who treat girls with respect and even the jackasses among my friends only front. What is to blame is what is known as the gender binary system, the theory that there are two categories for masculinity/femininity rather than a spectrum. I am a boi, and to me that is carrying myself in a manner more relatable to masculinity but still holding female qualities and not rejecting them. If the spectrum is uberfemme to uber butch (I’m guessing this’d be bull dyke or stone butch), then boi is near the middle but on the butch side. I don’t pretend to be a male or measure myself up to one, not intentionally if I happen to. I have a style that I find works for me and I feel good in, whether it’s my clothing or fragrance or hair style. I don’t want my qualities measured in reference to a man – I am not a man. I want to be measured by my merit as a person and as someone’s gf or wife. My “rant” is done.
I just came across your blog and have to say I’m enjoying it. Hope you keep writing! 🙂
How I identify has changed over the years, but I feel consistently pulled back to “boi”. For me the difference in butch and boi..
1. Personality. A lighter, less serious outlook is more boi-ish.
2. Boi feels like I’m not as interested in “taking the lead”.
3. Less negative connotations with boi because of things straight folks say.
4. Maybe more genderqueer- as in not male, not female, not butch, not femme, not athletic.
5. Possibly because of the word ‘butcher’, butch has a negative vibe. I’m not sure.
6. Appearance. I can and do sometimes pass for a teenage boy.
I didn’t label myself as boi for a long time- but my lesbian friends and lovers have. I go by both my first and middle name, and I give people the option to call me whichever they’d like. My best friend, a gay boy, shortened my first name to be a male name. The lesbians chose my middle name, which is unisex- but they still shortened it to a more masculine form. Even my straight friends will opt for the more unisex/masculine- and came up with a more ambiguous nickname.
So all in all, just my two cents. And what’s two cents worth? 😛
Hello ladies how do your think the girls or women who living in europe and russia more likely be Femme then Butch?