The Butch Factor
Remi and I recently watched a documentary called, “The Butch Factor.” I was more then a little disappointed when I realized that it was about our gay brothers and not about butch lesbians. But we watched it anyway.
It was actually very interesting. From this documentary it seemed like gay men that are very butch are the equivalent of a very femme lesbian. Both the butch gay man and the femme lesbian look straight. Which creates a dichotomy of experiences . On one hand, they seem to be very sought after by a certain faction of the community. Extreme displays of masculinity or femininity are considered a good thing to some and in fact, some times hard to find in LGBT circles.
But on the other hand, looking too straight automatically ostracizes you to some extent within some gay cliques. And you usually have to work pretty hard at getting accepted into a circle of gay friends. While I can’t speak for butch men, I can say that as a femme lesbian, I really felt like I had to prove myself to a particular gang of gay girls I was hanging around with at the time. To me, the only way I could see earning my “street cred” so to speak, was to sleep with as many women as possible. Which was a task I took on with great gusto for a few years.
As I had suspected, nothing convinces someone of your gay-ness quite like giving them an orgasm. Honestly however, I don’t think it was the notches on my belt that got me my full-fledged lesbian card, I think it was more the energy and confidence I put off after I had gotten my bearings and felt comfortable in my lesbian skin. Maybe sleeping with all those women gave me that, but it was the new found “so-totally-gay” energy I began to exude after my confidence in bed with women grew.
But I digress. When asked, “How do you define butch?” a man in the movie gave the best answer EVER. He replied, “Butch is an energy that makes you feel safe. It’s a safe, strong energy that surrounds you and makes you feel like everything is going to be ok.”
OMG! He hit the nail on the head! That’s EXACTLY how I feel and when I tell Remi that something is “very butch of her” I mean it in that way. For example, we have a lot to do on her next couple days off, so much I’m feeling very overwhelmed. But she told me this morning, “Don’t worry about a thing babe. I got this. Just relax and take it easy, I’ll take care of everything. I promise.”
Swoon, swoon, swoon! I literally got butterflies in my tummy when she told me that because she made me really feel like she would take care of everything and I told her, “That’s very butch of you, thank you sweetie.”
So I guess I tried to touch on two different discussion topics:
The first one is, are butch gay men the equivalent of a femme lesbian? And if so, then are drag queens the equivalent of a stone butch? See the parallels there?
Secondly, I just wanted to reiterate a point I have been making since the beginning of my blog; being butch is a good thing. It’s more then what you look like or how you act. It’s more about your energy and how you affect those around you. So next time someone calls you butch say, “Thank you very much.”
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Thanks for clarifying that – I always felt like butch was just a synonym for tough. Now I understand. 🙂
“Butch is an energy that makes you feel safe. It’s a safe, strong energy that surrounds you and makes you feel like everything is going to be ok.” YES! YES!!!! And a YES to Remi for the “I got this.” statement!
this is what i LOVE about butch women!! well…it can be a love/hate thang sometimes because i feel like i can take care of sooo much on my own. but it is really nice to feel secure in her arms or through a situation <3<3
I, too, had hopes that the butch factor was going to be about our handsome butch lesbians. But, I guess never thought about the boys having a tough time in the GLBT community. *sigh*
BTW LOVE that pic from G.I.Jane!! My favorite part. Second to the one where she’s knockin’ out those one arm push ups.
::::DROOL::::
LOL
I’m not exactly sure how it is to live as a gay boy, being a femme lesbian, but I think that butch men are perhaps more valued and desirable to gay men than femme lesbians are to gay women. But that might be just because I’m the the butch/femme niche. Even on the L Word the majority favorite was Shane, the butchest one on the regular cast.
I don’t think stone butch is equivalent to drag queen. Drag queens are performance-based and may or may not identify as transwomen. Stone butch lesbians are not performing for anyone and are set in their identity.
Also, thank you for reminding me how much I loved GI Jane. Swoon!
I think ‘safe’ is a good word as well. I think of being ‘butch’ more of a state of mind than appearance and being butch for me is making my girl feel safe and wanted.
hey i liked your blog, i’m butch and when i try to explain it to people they just think it means i’m butch cause i have short hair and wear mens clothing, though clearly this is not the case lol… and omg love gi jane 🙂
I think gay women just dress alike these days a bit boyish so you can not differentiate. Not the clear cut butch/femme like it used to be.
@ Chris I think you just opened a big can of worms LOL on CCL with that comment. lol 🙂 I am femme and personally don’t care what people choose to wear it is their character that is more important to me than their clothing. On the other hand lol I love wearing sexy shoes (have more than I can count), always wear low cut sexy tops-because I love them lol, funky yet beautiful bracelets etc and since I have a massive sexy underwear collection lol I NEVER leave the house in granny panties-HELL NO- LOL LOL LOL I own dresses, but prefer really nice dress slacks but ALWAYS with high heels. It is just a matter of people being who they are as individuals and wearing whatever they personally feel comfortable with wearing. Clothing does not make the person the heart and the strength of their character make the person. Have you ever heard the expression “Lipstick lesbian?” They are beautiful. I am guessing by what you wrote that you are a guy. Are you a guy? LOL I just had to ask – if so I don’t understand why a guy would come on a lesbian blog in the first place LOL LOL LOL LMFAO!!!!!!!! But to each his own. However, since this IS a lesbian blog then I don’t understand why a guy would then make such a general stereotypical comment. And by the way I think boyish looking butches as you put it are HOT!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!! Butches are as sexy as hell to me lol but I do have a favorite 🙂 (smiles- you know who you are lol) 🙂 And trust me I am EXTREMELY femine looking NO one can tell I’m gay. LOL So Chris please be careful and respectful when you make general statements.
correction LOL LOL ok maybe not EXTREMELY femine LOL LOL I actually hate to wear dresses LOL LOLL though I definitely will do so for weddings etc but I really prefer nice dress pants – and I rock em. LOL LOL 🙂 I got a little “drama queenish” LOL because I HATE when people make general statements like Chris did that people “can not differentiate butches and femmes because we all dress alike”. LOL 🙂 And so what if we do/did 🙂 as adults we can dress ourselves-LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂 Have a good night- be kind to each other. 🙂
I do apologise I haven,t been on the gay scence for a long time. It was what I noticed when I went in to a gay bar recently. I didn,t mean to be sterio typing people as I hate that myself.
You sound a fab dresser but I know beauty is skin deep. Bye the way I am all woman ha ha!!
Regards Chris.
@ Chris- Trust me my beauty goes WAY beyond skin deep.
@Chris You wouldn’t have any idea of what true beauty is until it bit you in the f’in ass! Don’t try to insinuate anything here on this blog! You need to listen awhile before you make any kind of rude comments towards folks you don’t know anything about! See, that way, you know for sure if the person you are trying to insult is truly worthy of it! Keep listening you ass…and you will recognize that we don’t put up with such shit from people like you here on this blog!
Hi Sasha! Are you still on holiday with Remi? 😉 lol! You go Remi!You’ve got her all hemmed up and on lock down, huh? lol…
@chris – ladies today dress exactly as they please, and that pleases me. enough with the rigidity, define yourselves!
I wasn,t trying to insult anyone at all and I certainly didn,t make any rude comments. If anyone is rude it is you. And what do you mean comments about people you dont even know. I have known more gay women in my time friends and lovers than you probably have had hot dinners.
Have you read the book “How to win friends and Influence people”? I dont think so.
For what it is worth I don’t believe Chris was trying to be rude at all. I believe she was making an observation about this generation of lesbians. And to be fair, yes they are more androgynous in their appearance than in years past. The butch/femme dynamic is not as valued as it used to be by the general lesbian population these days. Femmelover perhaps you should listen to a bit of your own advice about being rude and listening before speaking. Chris was neither rude nor did she call anyone an ass for making an innocent observation. In fact I thought Chris was very nice to Jaz. cheers.
@chris LMFAO! You ass…why does anyone have to WIN friends!! LOL. Oh, I see…you win your friendships…is that it? First of all, you don’t tell someone you don’t know that their beauty only runs skin deep…why don’t you re-read your dumb comment above and tell me that wasn’t rude! You are really starting off wrong on this blog! Where have you been, locked up or something?
@ WWG Hi gorgeous! How is your weekend turning out? Planning to do anything special today? Is the weather changing there? I’ve been thinking of you…:)
Femmelover, you really should read more. Or perhaps crack open a dictionary because the word “win” can also mean to acquire through one’s efforts. And when used in this manner, makes perfect sense in the book title. Perhaps you should listen to Chris and read it. Otherwise you may find that the only person making an ass out of herself may be you. I’m just giving a friendly piece of advice.
@Raye For what it is worth I think you also need to re-read the comment. What you are looking for (Raye) is in the last paragraph. That is where (I believe) chris was rude. I mean, it all sounded good until the “but” was used. “You sound a fab dresser but…” Come on Raye, what do you hear? What I heard after the but was someone trying to stick in a mean jab. If you cannot hear it…I cannot help it. And, I don’t care about chris’s observations about butch/femme dress codes etc. My beef was in her comment to Jazmenha. So, while I do appreciate your writers talent overall…I disagree with you on this one. Cheers to you!
Raye What? Why would anyone need to “acquire” through any effort? Either you have friends or you don’t. What’s the effort? I mean, it should be as natural as the sun coming up in the morning.
I think we both have different opinions on this subject and it WILL stay that way. And, furthermore, I happen to read a lot…so you can cut out that insinuation altogether! As of right now, this converstaion topic is over. cheers.
conversation of course…
@femmelover @raye – Oh lord, pissing contest again? Knock it off you two. Okay, clarification for EVERYONE.
Chris’s original comment was not entirely wrong. Was it well said? Nope. But was it wrong once you dissect what she meant? Nope. I mean, there is a lot of women who dress alike in the lesbian community. We know it and remark on it ourselves. That hipster boyish look? Yeah, you know it. She’s also right, in the past there wasn’t a lot of androgyny. It was more of a butch/femme only dynamic. Tell me please if we’re wrong.
Then, Jazmenha made a bunch of comments about her own style, and then wondered if Chris was actually male. Okay, not cool, since this is a lesbian blog, but then again, men do write on here occasionally and have similar derogatory comments about the way we dress. Was it a bit churlish to say that? Sure. Was it possibly true? Yup. Anyway, Chris said no, she’s all woman. Okay, fair enough. And she also said that Jazzy sounds like a fab dresser, but beauty is skin deep. Asshole comment? Yup. Was FL right in calling her out on it? Yup. Sorry Chris, but you earned the swiping you received, especially if you’re going to say in one comment that you’re new on the scene and then say you have known a lot of gay women. Which is it?
Anyway, since then we’ve devolved into a lot of name calling, pissiness and what have you. My head’s spinning and I’d prefer new posts and comments that are actually interesting to read than this.
/mediator
This is precisely why I don’t write blogs on here anymore… because of the double standards and nitpicking bullshit not to mention the downright ignorance. Femmelover can sit here and call someone an ass for making an observation about the way lesbians are dressing and the fact that Jaz’s dresses and lingerie have nothing to do with what she was trying to say. Femmelover took a simple statement as a jab and then called someone a fucking man for making said statement. However, if a man came on this blog making lewd comments in front of everyone here about a femme parading around in her lingerie in front of her then claimed to be “entertaining” the masses by it, he would be run out on a rail. We just got through with a ridiculous conversation about chivalry and this behavior just proved my point. Chivalry and manners is not what women want because that shit is not chivalry. I get lambasted and then here we go with the public display of objectification of women by femmelover and she is heralded as some “mackdaddy” I think was the word used? Yall are hypocrites.
By the way, Femmelover, for your information the title of that book was not chosen by Chris and it was written by Dale Carnegie in 1937. It was a best seller which sold over 15 million copies because it talked about making friends & networking by using a little etiquette. MANY people bought the book. I was just trying to hint a little about your ignorant comments to help you not sound like an illiterate jackass but yeah ok we can agree to disagree there. So what Chris said beauty is only skin deep when making reference to Jaz’s wardrobe? She was trying to point out that Jaz’s description of her lingerie (which has done about a million times all over this site)had nothing to do with what she was trying to say. You went off calling someone you don’t know an ass because she offended your little online friend who spends most posts talking about her lingerie. Grow a pair and get over it. God I am sick of the whiny ass behavior here. You act like you own the site and can tell everyone else what they can or can’t say just because a couple of girls on here flirt back and forth with you. But YOU my friend have not been here that long either so who are you to tell someone how they have started off on this site?
@WWG I am sorry you feel this is a pissing contest between Femmelover and me. I really like you and your comments. But my statements were an attempt to be helpful to someone who was behaving like an illiterate ass while calling someone else one. You can’t make honest observations on this page without some bleeding heart lesbian bitching all over the place and getting her panties in a bunch. I defended Chris… and I would do it again. She was attacked for no reason, first by Jaz, then by Femmelover AFTER she had already explained her statement and made an attempt at an apology.
You make a statement in defense of a particular position on something and it is fine. I make one and it is a pissing contest. WTF? Please understand that I am not trying to be hateful or rude by pointing that out, I just don’t understand how what I am doing is any different from what you or Jaz or Femmelover are doing?
Good lord this shit is ridiculous. OK wow yeah I am fucking OUT and DONE with this conversation. Have fun yall.
@ WWG – Goodmorning/afternoon beautiful. I have resolved to walk away from the pissing contest. I did that yesterday and it is still in effect. However, I must say in my defense that I was not questioning the overall comment that Chris made. Raye took this to a total new level…somewhere I never wanted to go. I am not the type to jump down someone’s throat, but that one particular comment…well, I could not let that go. Could I have been a little more tolerable/nicer with my comments back to Chris? Well…yes, I guess I could have.
Anyway, beautiful lady…how are you? I’ve been wondering about you. Are any of my fellow buthces trying to capture you? (smile)
Raye – even if you don’t post articles any more, I hope you will stay around and post comments. Your brand of honesty is refreshing and I enjoy reading what you have to say. It was big of you to step up and speak out for Chris, I didn’t really see it as a defense but more of trying help to people understand what she tried to say since she obviously gave up. I know you’re a longtimer on this blog, and I doubt a couple of squirmishes will run you off…you just ain’t that much of a wimp. For what it is worth, there are those of us who understand where you come from, even though we might not always agree, we respect you and your opinions.
Ok, I really thought I was done here with you Raye…but, YOU are really being the ABSOLUTE ASS, now! Listen, you can say whatever you want about me and all of my so called illiterate/ignorant comments but, keep Jazmenha’s name out of your mouth…or, anyone else’s name matter of fact that I might be associated with here on this blog!
If anyone is to blame here for any offensive speech I squarely take it upon my shoulders. Again, you need to go back and re-read the last few comments that Jazmenha and I made to each other. I apologized to Jazmenha and I apologize to anyone else who might have found my conversations with her offensive or degrading. At least I am big enough to admit when I am WRONG…but you, I am not so sure you even know the word! Jazmenha is a lady through and through and doesn’t deserve to have ANY of your ugly comments directed towards her!
Furthermore, you need to go back AGAIN and read my initial statement to Chris. See, I am going to be a gentleman here (damn! even towards a dude) and not curse you out! First of all, I never said anything about how lesbians dress nor did I call anyone a man! My beef, as I said before was with Chris’s statement after the word “but” was used. Raye, I’ve got to believe you know the definition of the word? When used like this in a sentence it most likely constitutes something negative will follow…
Listen, I know this is Sasha’s blog! And, I don’t feel that any of my comments have in any way proved otherwise. Again, this is just one of your own opinions…(smile)…which is fine. lol!
And, damn! I’m not so sure you are a real Texan; because, if you were truly a Texan, you would never have lost your cool in the 50 paragraphs above! Cheers and done for good with this.
@Raye – basically, there’s a lot of misreading of comments and intentions on this particular thread from EVERYONE, myself included. Because of this miscommunication, everyone’s taking offense at new things without understanding what was originally meant. The snowball is quickly descending the mountain and picking up speed. Since no one read the first comment correctly, it has since become a pissing contest.
This is the internet. It is not utopia. Arguments happen, and things get misunderstood. I attempted to shine light on the areas where people were misunderstanding each other. I was exhausted and didn’t communicate well. I apologize.
@femmelover – cool your heels. Jaz is a big girl and can take care of herself. Secondly, she was the first to misunderstand Chris’ comments and attacked her first. I can’t say that Chris’ response wasn’t somewhat deserved. Can you, really? And I like Jaz too, but hell, if I did the same, I’d expect one of you to call me out for my bullshit too.
I agree with this comment: https://www.cardcarryinglesbian.com/http:/cardcarryinglesbian.com/butch-femme/the-butch-factor/comment-page-1#comment-76843
I think that Jaz was completely in the wrong for asking if Chris was a man and then- prior to getting the FACTS- goes off on a sexist rant on the mere assumption that Chris was a man.
Chris’ initial comment was: “I think gay women just dress alike these days a bit boyish so you can not differentiate. Not the clear cut butch/femme like it used to be.”
This doesn’t have to be a can of worms- as Raye pointed out this is something a lot of lesbian/LGBT community sites have been pointing out for years. Hipster dykes, lesbian chic, androgyny, BIEBIANS.
Jaz comes in with all these *assumptions* based off of all of two sentences:
“It is just a matter of people being who they are as individuals and wearing whatever they personally feel comfortable with wearing. Clothing does not make the person the heart and the strength of their character make the person. Have you ever heard the expression ‘Lipstick lesbian?’ They are beautiful.”
Where did all of this come from? There was nothing in Chris’ original comment to indicate that she needed to hear these things, or that she felt to the contrary. She did not say the clothes defined the gay lady, and one can infer she knows what a femme or lipstick lesbian is, because she said she came from the generation where things were “clear cut butch/femme.”
“I am guessing by what you wrote that you are a guy. Are you a guy? LOL I just had to ask – if so I don’t understand why a guy would come on a lesbian blog in the first place LOL LOL LOL LMFAO!!!!!!!! But to each his own.”
This is what I meant earlier, Jaz just assumes Chris is a guy and- without waiting for confirmation either way- goes off on a little ditty about men on gay sites (maybe it’s because Sasha’s writing is so entertaining? They have gay friends, it doesn’t need to be justified any more than why some whites like to read predominantly black websites).
“However, since this IS a lesbian blog then I don’t understand why a guy would then make such a general stereotypical comment.”
Again, assuming Chris was a man. And again, gay identified ladies make this observation all the time.
“I got a little “drama queenish” LOL because I HATE when people make general statements like Chris did that people “can not differentiate butches and femmes because we all dress alike”.”-Jaz
That’s not what she said- bare bones, that’s what you assumed.
“You sound a fab dresser but I know beauty is skin deep. Bye the way I am all woman ha ha!!”-Chris
I am only playing Devil’s Advocate with *this* comment. I can see how this can be interpretted as insulting, as it isn’t well worded at all. However, I can also that that when you have already made your mind up about the CHARACTER (and gender, cough) of someone, it colors the tone in which you’ll read something on the internet. If we color Chris as sarcastic, stereotyping, and passive aggressive than the above quote is inappropriate. If we color Chris as someone who makes clipped sentences and has off beat humor, it could mean: you sound like a fab dress, but I know beauty is skin deep [and the left out part would read: so I know there is more to you than your clothes.]
“Yup. Sorry Chris, but you earned the swiping you received, especially if you’re going to say in one comment that you’re new on the scene and then say you have known a lot of gay women. Which is it?”-WWG
It’s both, re-read the comment.
Chris says:
“I think gay women just dress alike these days a bit boyish so you can not differentiate. Not the clear cut butch/femme like it used to be.”
The sentences were framed in the sort of way someone who has lived through the earlier generations of lesbianism would phrase it- in that good ol’ days mentality. If that isn’t enough, Chris also said: “I do apologise I haven,t been on the gay scence for a long time. It was what I noticed when I went in to a gay bar recently. I didn,t mean to be sterio typing people as I hate that myself.”
“Recently” and “long time” being the key words. For all we know, Chris is in her late 30s to 60s and is re-experiencing the gay clubs for whatever reason and noticed that, indeed, things have definitely changed.
—-
And for the record, I am not aiming to personally attack anyone (it seems people take things very personally here at times), but pointing out: This is how I see things, and this is why.
And maybe I’m not the average woman (well, by definition I know I am not), but I do want chivalry- specifically the kind Sasha described. And I’m willing to wait for it. 🙂
@elegy – well written assessmen tof the situation. Yep, i see where i misread thing, assuming new on the scene meant newly ot which is why the latter comment confused me. I understand better now, thanks.
@ Everyone! – I think all of you fail to understand why I got into this fray! My defense mechanism came into effect because of the statement/PARAGRAPH by Chris that said…you sound a fab dresser BUT I know beauty is skin deep. I believe that anything said after the BUT would seem to constitute a negative statement to follow…and that is what I interpreted. Furthermore, how can anyone here be sure that a derogatory comment was not exactly what Chris intended to convey. It is abundantly clear that we are all making generalizations. I say we should squash this topic right now and move on.
WWG –
WWG how are you? Are you upset here…?
I was out of town and returned to this misunderstanding. For the reference to asking if she was a man I sincerely apologize to Chris and I do agree that wasn’t cool and shouldn’t have been said. For my defending myself that in how I read and was therefore (based on how I read it/ how I interpreted it) and was then personally insulted by the beauty being skin deep etc comment- for defending myself on that I don’t apologize because I know my the strength and beauty of my character. However, because this is the internet and not actual face to face interaction I am unfortunately not given an opportunity to know the strength and beauty of Chris’s character (just as many of you who attacked me on this post don’t have such an opportunity to get to know that of me), however by reading her apology “I do apologise I haven,t been on the gay scence for a long time. It was what I noticed when I went in to a gay bar recently. I didn,t mean to be sterio typing people as I hate that myself.”and by my carefully reading E’s well written comments “For all we know, Chris is in her late 30s to 60s and is re-experiencing the gay clubs for whatever reason and noticed that, indeed, things have definitely changed.” I can sincerely tell that Chris IS a person of strength and that she IS of beauty in character. Because of E’s explaination that of how the “beauty is skin deep” comment could have been interpreted different ways I now have a better understanding. So to Chris I sincerely apologize for this misunderstanding.
Jaz:
Let’s get back to what’s really important! Discussing our favorite lingerie! 😉 I prefer vintage, but I’m stuck with (granted cute) Khol’s deals (25 bucks for 5 undies that would have cost me 75 at Victoria’s secret isn’t a raw deal, though!).
WWG no problem!
Femmelover: I understand where you came in and that’s your choice, that’s why I didn’t address it in my long winded post- that sort of thing is emotional and up in the air on how to interpret, so I didn’t touch it lol.
@ Elegy – With all due respect, I think lingerie discussions at this point are topically inappropriate given the nature of Raye’s verbal rampage on Jazmenha…don’t you think? But, I do understand your wanting to chat and smoothe things over all around. You are quality.
@ Raye – You have just about ruined a poor girls life with your rampage at me! I hope you are fucking happy! Jazmenha is having a rough time right now thanks to you and your wanting to hear your own ass talk. You should never have brought her up in your comments to me. If you had a f’in beef with me take it out on ME! You should have left all of those comments about her out.
@femmelover – nope, not upset at all. Believe me, if i was, you wouldnt need to ask because i would not pussyfoot around it. But i dont believe in letting stuff online upset me (for the most part). Its just arguing and debating you know?
WWG – I know you speak your mind. I do like that about you. You and Jazmenha are quality women. I wish none of this stuff (from the past few days) ever happened. I am very un-happy right now, and all broken-up inside…
I have not and will not give ANYONE – let a lone a total stranger who knows NOTHING about me – the “power” lol destroy my life or my spirit. OH HELL NO! lol I am WAY too secure in the beauty of my own heart. Like many (if not most) other people, I have been through hell in my life and I ALWAYS come out stronger in the end because I know who I am and frankly I am VERY proud of who I am because regardless of what I have experienced in during my life I remain positive and strong within who I am and equally important to me I remain kind to others. This does NOT make me a push over it makes me someone who is secure and keeps things in perspective. Because those who matter don’t care and those who care (about the bull shit said about me in the above posts) don’t matter. I find it incredibly ironic that I have been attacked in this particular blog post by people that I have in previous posts and blogs encouraged, supported and in Raye’s case even defended. I know in my heart I have been NOTHING but kind to everyone throughout this blog and THAT is all that matters to me- how I personally treat people because in the end we are ONLY held individually accountable for how we treated others not how others treat us.
Hi everyone,
I have certainly learned a lot since I made my comments. One of them is to be carful of how I word things as they might be misinterpreted.
I can only say that I didn’t mean to insult or offend anyone I am not a person like that.
Regards to you all Chris.
To tell you the truth I am not surprised that Femmelover is again trying to put me into some kind of villain position for speaking only an observation. Did I call Jaz names? Did I attack her personally? Nope. I said she was talking about her lingerie all over the site for what she herself called entertainment to everyone else. Did this happen? Absolutely. I was calling out the hypocritical behavior of the lesbians on here. And I said nothing hateful to Jaz to do so. But ok, I have resolved myself to being the badboi of the page. I can handle it and hold my own, don’t you worry about that. As for being a true Texan, what do you know about it Femmelover? Are you from Texas? Because if anyone lost their cool on this page it was you my friend. I was perfectly calm the whole time. You were the one who started the name calling for no reason and can’t handle it when you get called out. Then you continued to defend your childish behavior even after Elegy & Rexie made the exact same points that I was illustrating. (By the way ladies, bravo and well said.) You keep saying you are dropping the subject but you just can’t shut your proverbial mouth. You only want it dropped as long as you have the last word. But that is how things work here isn’t it? When I am wrong I admit I am wrong. The problem is that I usually have a good reason for what I say. And evidently I needed to say more because you felt the need to puff out your chest at me. lol Well calling me an ass for pointing out your ignorant statements just kinda makes me chuckle a bit.
@WWG no worries love. I always enjoy what you have to say. I guess I only said something because I don’t like my most respected readers to have an ill opinion of me. I try to explain myself the best I can.
@Rexie Don’t worry I am sure I will write more in the future. It is just a busy time for me at home with my son’s homeschooling and football practice. I have had a trying year and things here seem so trivial compared to my real life. But rest assured my comments will continue because I actually find it quite relaxing to go off on idiots. Most people think I have anxiety when I make an argument but actually I am usually just blowing off steam.
@Elegy you are a class act my dear.
@ Chris I echo your well worded comment posted at 9:39am. I also learned a lot since I made my comment to you and I also did not mean to insult or offend anyone. I too an not a person like that. Sorry for this misunderstanding Chris.
@ Raye I used the word “entertaining” literally two times in one sentence and it was totally surrounded by “laugh out louds” followed by “not wanting people to get the wrong idea” etc. I guess you did not read my supportive comments to the girl who was contemplating suicide, all my countless supportive comments defending Sasha, my encouraging video I posted on the Kansas blog or my words in defense of you during the Li-Boi/Raye dialog. Like everyone, including you, I uphold my personal integrity at a high standard and I feel you personally attacked me by focusing on stupid comments that I made in passing and in joking about lingerie- that will never happen again as I embarrassed myself with those dumb comments because I VERY foolishly let me guard down on this site, but that is on me and I do NOT need to be reminded of that stupid and embarrassing mistake. Respectfully you do not know me- you do not know how I take care of my parents, that my full time job (going on 14 years) is an advocate for low income children in very intense situations- the strangers whose stories I have heard and tears I have wiped, the years that I spent supporting my brother’s journey, that soon I will start my volunteering as a photographer (one of my art forms) for terminally ill kids. I am NOT saying these things to brag I am saying these things to paint the true picture of who I am is NOT the one you portrayed of me. This subject is closed to me.
Thanks for the compliments, they’re very appreciated! I sincerely wish we had butches in my area, but I can’t find them anywhere. Maybe they’re already shacked up with their lovely partners (femme, butch, or otherwise)- or maybe they don’t use the internet that much around here. ^^;
Anyway, I was mostly joking about the underwear thing, and I’m glad it was interpreted how I really meant it- a way to move on. We all make mistakes and intercommunicate- it’s the bane of the written word on the internet (which makes us lazy, I say/think/type!). I’ve done it my fair share of times and of course had to apologize for it later (I’m an Aries, so that always sucks). Anyway, I said it on another post of Sasha’s, but I’ll say it here in case Raye sees it: I do like your blogs and I hope that one day you’ll decide to post a blog or two (or five) here again. 🙂 Jaz, I hope that one day you’ll find that strength or rock or reason to come out of the closet and be free. You deserve to choose you, not anyone else.
Intercommunicate! See! This is the laziness! Damn you, spell check! I right clicked, dropped the first correction without looking at it, and hit post. I meant miscommunicate.
@Jaz one more thing… I apologize if I hurt your feelings in any way. I tried to word what I was saying about the disparity between what women say on here and what they do without making it a personal attack on you. I am not really one to engage in that level of flirtation with a femme typically but if I were single and I had been in the same position, I would not have drawn out your comments and egged you on so publicly. I am saying that out of respect for you love. I was more angry about the way you were exploited and it was applauded than chastising you for any statements you made. Forgive me if I offended you.
insert “publicly” between the words “flirtation” and “with”
@Jaz, I had written a apologetic response to you but something froze up when I posted it. I tried posting it once more and it said I had already posted it so I am not sure if it got lost or what because I know Sasha does not censor comments. However I will try to post it again because I want you to know the nature of why I posted what I said. I apologize if what I stated about the situation hurt your feelings. It was not my intent to personally attack you. I have no doubt that you are a good person. My comments were directed at how you were exploited publicly by others and then it was applauded by several people on the site just after I was scolded for pointing out that chivalry is indeed being killed slowly due to the behavior of women. I received righteous indignation from readers and how dare I say these things and even got called a douchebag and an ass and a few other choice words. Meanwhile someone toting the name “Femmelover” gets praised for behaving like an (albeit cheesy) player and engaging in exploitative conversation with a vulnerable femme trying to find her place in this page. I meant no harm to you. I was angry at what was being encouraged of you at your own embarrassment. Forgive me if I offended you.
This is unbelievable…! You know what? This is total bullshit from you! Attacking out in the open is one thing but attacking undercover is quite another! You seem to be really good at it too. Now, I am going to really think about what I say to you…because Sasha has asked us all to do just that…which point you seem to have missed completely. You just cannot leave me the f alone can you? But, screw you and all of your underhanded crap. No apologies are necessary from you at all; not wanted or needed for that matter. You keep playing that role of the big Texas gentleman! I am more of a gentleman by far. You hide behind a good blog or two but I know what you are deep down. LOL!
But, you know what…you can say whatever you want about me and the things I already apologized for…which you obviously chose to conveniently overlook…but, hey I expect that from you. And your attacks on me and my character faze me not because you have no idea who I AM! Chris could have handled her own business. She didn’t need you to butt in! She’s a big girl! You say when you are wrong you admit it. Well, go ahead and admit it…say I, Raye am wrong! Where did all of that crap from your mouth come from? Someone did you wrong in the past? It’s all coming back now, huh? Now remember, I am thinking long and hard about my comments and how they might hurt you!
At this point in the this never ending saga that you keep perpetuating by way of your comments above…your notorious mouth needs to ask your foot for a favor! Your foot all in it. cheers!
lol… wow. *shakes head*
@ Raye- I read and reflected on what you wrote. To quoet “you (Jaz) were exploited publicly by others and then it was applauded by several people on the site” (“others” and “several people” means MORE than one person and I know all those u are referring to – I am not dumb) I have been NOTHING but kind to everyone on CCL. I am done with this NOT because I can’t deal with it, but because I CHOOSE not to deal with it- I mean really who would want to be “exploited” and then publicly humiliated by more than one person…..NOT me I am WAY too good of a person for that bull shit. This is my last post.
(@ Sasha I sent u a message I look forward to keeping in touch with you as I think you are truly a wonderful person.)
From an outside perspective, reading this entire comment page, I have come to the conclusion that you’re all insane and I have no idea why anyone bothered to continue with something so trivial…
This is a mere expression of thought: not evidence of intent of offend any of you-
Just in case someone throws a virtual mini-monster with a pickaxe at me.
@ Wirerose of course you think we’re all insane… no offense taken lol
I take it as a compliment, I don’t remember being sane. 8D
I’m not trying to insult anyone but I find it very ironic and humorous that it took Raye telling Jaz that she had been exploited/humiliated for her to realize that (or just appear to realize maybe- hmmm) and then get upset about it. At the same time, get over it cause- you knew what you were writing and you saw the comments in response to it. This shouldn’t make you go into cyber hiding. Ignore the ignorant and enjoy Sasha’s blog. You need an outlet if your as closted as you say and I really don’t think any of us think anything different towards you Jaz.
And Wirerose is right, ya’ll are quite insane, some more than others. (I slipped the ya’ll in there to give FL the opportunity to bash on Texans again, lol). I’m half expecting at least one crazy person responding to this and the whole crazy mess cycling all over again.
Quack Quack! Give the lady $50 bucks. She said the secret woyd!
@Rexie lmaooooooooooo!!! you are fucking hilarious woman!
@eli hey hey to a fellow Texan! welcome to the zoo! lmao
@ Eli- Respectfully if you knew me, really knew me, you would not find it “ironic” or “humorous” that I didn’t realize that because 1. I ALWAYS think the best of people- something I will now think twice about doing 2. In the past I have been in 2 VERY abusive relationships with men so I am empathetic and gentle with myself not “realizing” that I was publicly embarrassed and “exploited” etc.- obviously a mistake that woke me up perminately this time. Of course I know what I wrote and I know that I was absolutely NOT over the top etc because I know the type of person I am and I am VERY proud of my character. Every one of us has the right to get upset, to go into hiding, to express themselves etc. I am not insulted by your comment because you too have the right to express yourself. Though I didn’t agree completely with what Raye said, after reflection I now see she that used the correct descriptive words like “exploited”, “publicly humiliated”, “people appluded my (J’s) embarrassment” etc And yes it took me reading her words to realize it- SO WHAT??????- like I said I am VERY gentle and empathetic with myself in not realizing it etc because I know what I have been through in my life. Every thing happens for a reason. Every experience makes us stronger. Every experience makes us closer to who we are to become. I just had to reply to this post, but as far as I am concerned the subject and endless stream of posts of this stupid topic is COMPLETELY closed. Come on everyone- there is a whole blog full of Sasha’s wonderful topics to experience. And yes I am “closeted” though I did have a very serious talk recently with my brother (who is gay) last week when I visited him. And I am going on a vacation with Crush (rem-gym membership girl lol) Veteran’s weekend. However, honestly after the experience on this post- I am not going to open up any further about any of my personal business etc on CCL and this is a VERY understandably position in light of everything I have experienced here lately. I really wanted to say something in reply to your post.
@ Wirerose I LOVED that you called us all “insane” that sincerely gave me MUCH needed laughter. Thanks.
Raye, I know, right! I feel like I’m watching a bunch of monkeys wrestling in the dirt or something. I enjoy reading Sasha’s work though, so what’s a small detour to the zoo occasionally?
Perfect CLOSURE on this incredibly stupid topic can be found in quoeting Wirerose’s wise words ” I have no idea why anyone bothered to continue with something so trivial…” Very well said Wirerose. So now come on everyone go check out all the well written adventures/blogs of our fearless leader 🙂 Sasha.
Jaz I know you possibly may not believe it but I do wish you the best. And I don’t blame you for keeping personal things off this site. Live and learn right?
@ Raye If I have learned anything in my life and from all my life experiences it is that life is unspeakably precious and remarkably short and that we are all just trying to make it through the best way we each know how……Being Italian I grew up hearing a beautiful Italian (translated) queot “Every rose has its thorns- you have to go through the thorns to appreciate the beauty of the rose.” Raye, I wish you the best too…
LOL! Sasha…LMFAO…can I get her?
@ Femmelover- Pls don’t be upset with me for saying that to Raye…I mean I just want this mess behind us all- life is WAY too short for such mess etc. Besides, Femmelover I wish you all the best too…
@ Femmelover I just wanted to add that I do appreciate how you stood up for me through all the stupid mess that was thrown at me on this post. Thank you. You are a good person and I do sincerely wish you all the best. Let’s just all move on from this mess in peace please……hey did you know Sasha is a skateboarder? I think that is SO cool!
Does anyone like Jane Lynch who plays Sue Sylveste in Glee? I did,t know she was gay until I went online to find out more about her.
I have a special place in my heart for Jane Lynch. That Can Do No Wrong place, that I don’t want shattered by a potentially contradicting reality. XD
@ Chris – I think you just opened a terrific topic for a possible new blog. 🙂 Check this out: http://www.afterellen.com/TV/2010/09/five-reasons-why-glee-bridges-the-great-gay-divide
@ Raye and Femmelover – NOT to reopen anything (please no reopening anything) but I have to say something in reply to hurt feelings that arose and were recently expressed to me- for the record FL was a gentleman to me and did not “exploit” me – our flirting was totally innocent and was misinterpreted and then exaggerated etc. And SHE was the one who defended me. She IS a good person- both of us are good people who just both got a bad rap. Both of us were painted in unfavorable light that we did not deserve. SUBJECT CLOSED- I just HAD to say something in light of a recent conversation and because Sasha said in her bully blog- we are all REAL people with feelings etc and not just random names. Now back to Jane Lynch- yeah check out that clip/article “http://www.afterellen.com/TV/2010/09/five-reasons-why-glee-bridges-the-great-gay-divide”
Es la verdad. Gracias!
Jazmenha – Hello beautiful! Hope you are well. Thank you for the words, that means a lot.Hello beautiful! Hope you are well. Thank you so much for the kind words on “The Butch Factor”. It means a lot to me.
@ Femmelover You are welcome and I am glad we have peace in this. Sorry about L.J.(or ??L.L.??) – she has NOTHING to do with me so do NOT listen to any of her bull shit! I am so glad you understood all that and that we cleared that misunderstanding.
Wow! What a type o that was re: “The Butch Factor”. But, this is one comment I don’t mind repeating.
Sasha, this is, as usual with your writing, spot on! There’s just nothing sexier or more appealing than a woman who makes you feel safe, as if everything is going to be ok. My partner and I just celebrated our 8th anniversary, and to this day, I get a flood of warmth in my chest whenever she takes charge of some otherwise overwhelming situation.